WE ARE ALREADY FREE | Nathan Maingard on Vegan -"ism", Psychedelics, Lessons from Loss & More.

Transcript

Josh Snyman 0:09
Awesome. Looks like we are live, Nathan. Thanks for coming on, brother.

Nathan Maingard 0:13
My pleasure, Josh. Thanks for having me.

Josh Snyman 0:15
Oh, good. Yeah, so she's I've got a lot that I that I sort of want to cover. I haven't been following you for a long time and I must be honest, it's kind of a bit overwhelming to know where to start with these things, especially with new people. But I thought I would start with maybe just giving the listeners like a bit of an overview of how you describe yourself because I find it very intriguing. So how do you describe yourself to the world whether online or in person? What's the best fit answer for that?

Nathan Maingard 0:50
How do I describe myself? I mean, it's always changing like I always find it funny to fit labels are always funny because none of us are labels. We are all so much beyond that. But in terms of what I feel like I'm here for, I think, on this round of the merry go round. I am in service of reminding free people that in fact inspiring and helping free people to live their truth and be the change. So that's kind of like what I'm here for in terms of what I am. I think I've just been a hyper sensitive person who never really managed to fit into the societal structures even though I tried super hard for a long time and I ended up with a lot of pain because of it. But I really remember so clearly my feelings of wanting like authentic connection and wanting just to be myself with others. I recently had a line come to me in a medicine journey, which is just I love being me with you. And I realised that that's one of my primary states is I love being me with you with all of you with this whole dance. And yet somewhere along the way, I learned that me being me wanting to be me with you is not welcome. And I was bullied and crushed and punished and all the other wonderful things that we've all been through and I'm not unique in this. So now more than anything, I think maybe the most accurate thing when someone asked me like who I am or what I'm up to, I could just say I love being new with you and that would probably be the most accurate response.

Unknown Speaker 2:26
Wow, how can I connected with that almost instantaneously, I felt that yeah, that's, that's very powerful. And this is stuff that I would love to get into the you mentioned some medicine work which I definitely want to dive into because it's some it's a very, it's a very I guess it's a hot topic these days. But I've also had some interesting experiences myself, so I would love to maybe dive into that a bit a bit later for sure. But I thought, I mean, that sort of introduction out the way I thought I would start with also how I've sort of came into contact with you which is you know, in the glorious world of Instagram and and seeing your good work put out there but specifically, I actually thought it was Tara by Donna, you pronounce it Tara so Is that correct, Tara from slow down farmstead?

Unknown Speaker 3:16
Yeah, she mentioned she said like I love the way you said and your accent but it's actually Tara

Unknown Speaker 3:21
Tara Yeah, so So I made it I made a note to just try my best to get her her the pronunciation of a name right So Tara from slowing down farmstead for those that don't know she's just got an amazing account. She's an amazing wordsmith like yourself and I just connect deeply with her work and then through her I came in contact with your work. How so how did that relationship transpire? What what's the connection be behind you know that that podcast and and the relationship itself?

Unknown Speaker 3:52
Well, she's so actually my mom recommended her terrorist page sold on farmstead at some point a few years ago and my mom makes you has she's like a really good at finding like these epic things that I don't know there's a lot of stuff we don't see eye to eye on but more and more I realise she really is on point in a lot of ways. Like when the whole like lock downs, everything first kicked off, and I was like, Oh, it's just another one of those silly things. You know, it'll be she was like, no, no, this is the beginning of something really serious. She was so dead dead on like, in so Anyway, anyway, but um, so she told me about Tara and at some point I just started following slow down farmstead and then just commenting and interacting and because Tara is I think such a wonderful human like at some point, I guess she was like, wow, this guy seems like he's really enjoying stuff and she just wants to click through to my page. And then there was a resonance obviously where she was like, Wow, I love his songs, his poems. etc. And we just started an interaction and for now she's I guess a couple of years we've just every now and then we'll just exchanged some messages and I just deeply I think she she's kind of models kind of embodiment that I'm, I'm working on it myself that I'm practising where she really lives her truth. In a way that I I am practising that's that's it kindly.

Unknown Speaker 5:12
Yeah, definitely. There's there's so much so much goodness there and I can see it in your work to be honest. It's definitely coming through and it's it seems to be blooming right now. So that's a that's a good good sight. And you know, it's I connected so deeply with with the first 1520 minutes of the podcast you did with her and I was like, wow, this is just absolutely. It's the stuff that I get super excited. About, like, in the sense that that's real. You know, that's the type of stuff that that I would love to be involved in speaking about. I mean, you mentioned the beginning, you know, sort of not fitting in I felt the same way. It's I've always wanted let's just call this guy maybe fat Joshi when he was back at the pubs you know, all the time. I always had this longing for just going a bit deeper with things and and not living on the periphery or just not living on the surface, you know, and I feel like that. I guess what I'm saying is like, this is a testament to, to me living my truth and and finding out more about myself and connecting with, you know, with with individuals like yourself and Tara and other people that I've had in the shows. So yeah, I connect deeply with that and yeah, something something very special there.

Unknown Speaker 6:37
Well, there's actually a podcast episode I don't know when this episode will be out, but I have one coming on the next Thursday, which is kind of in two days. So yeah, what timelines What is this but when my friend my dear brother, Roman, Ricardo, we have a really great conversation and at some point, I think towards the end of that conversation he talks about he's like, be you like if you don't let everyone know that you love basketball. How do the other people who love basketball find you so it's like, if now you Joshua letting the world know, this is I love depth. I love authenticity. I love meat. And then other people like Oh, me, too, I want to be a part of that. And I just think more and more that that's like, that's the whole inspiration for we are already free which came through a poem, which there's all story behind that which I can get into but for now, mainly just, it's about what can we do? What can I do? I'm not trying to convince anyone that of anything. Actually all I'm doing is singing the song of my heart so that other people who have the same song can find me and I can find them and we can all remember together that we are already free. And so rather than it being about, oh, I want to go and check all those people are wrong. I need to change their minds. Let them think what they want to think I don't I can't change anyone's mind. I'm just done pretending that I'm I'm just done pretending basically. That's at the end of the day.

Unknown Speaker 8:10
Definitely, definitely. So I mean, for those that don't know, so, I mean, kind of, I'm kind of structuring this episode around your podcast itself. So your podcast is called we are already free. And what he spoke about the poem, obviously you can go into as much detail as you like as to how they came about, but what so you gave us sort of you scratch the surface there. So how, how did what's the origins of it? You know, what's, what's the, how did this manifest itself and how did this creation come about? Because I find it very beautiful and maybe you can touch on the on the butterfly as well, because I thought that was a pretty interesting symbol for the podcast itself.

Unknown Speaker 8:54
Yeah, sure. So like when this whole thing kicked off again, because I don't know how many people remember how often we've had these kind of like, oh no SARS or Oh, no, I don't know bird flu or pigs, swine flu or like this. Every few years. There's been another thing I even saw as a photo that had been put together like a meme or something where there's all these covers of Time magazine like Oh, no swine flu. Oh no, this like they've been the sort of when I say they, I mean the consciousness that is currently thinks it's in control of reality. Is is running the game of fear and othering and oh, no, those deadly germs that are gonna kill us and there's nothing we can do. So I've been witnessing that for many years. I made my history my upbringing was Nature Cure, my parents raised me in nature. So that's when we got sick. We would fast and we would do cleanses of enemas, like which now sounds great. Like I didn't used to tell people that when I was a kid, I was like, I don't know. I was embarrassed. But it worked. I would be I'd be sick for maybe two or three, maybe four or five days at the most get a nice fever. Sweat It Out. And then I'd be well again, I never saw really went to the doctor, other than for injuries. And then when I was in my early 20s, and I first went overseas, I fully bought out again I was at that time trying to fit into the system as drinking as having sex I was doing all the wonderful things that the society told me I should do to be a good citizen and I was getting so sick, like just from eating shit food, having shit relationships, and I started going to doctors so like, Oh, I feel a bit unwell go to the doctor. They give me antibiotics, and then I'm sick for like a week and I feel terrible and I don't really feel that good afterwards. I was like, this sucks. So through my own experimentation, I realised actually the nature cures way better. And I returned to that way of just cleansing, fasting, eating better food, etc. And so I already had been through my journey my dark night of the soul with trusting the institutions to take care of me I realised a long time ago, they don't know how to take care of me. And that's one of the defining characteristics of modern society is that it doesn't actually take care of people, which is crazy, but true. And so by the time the whole COVID thing rolled around, I was just like, oh, this is ridiculous, like I didn't even really pay much attention. And then it got more intense and I was like, Okay, this is now people are really buying buying this story like they really think this is we have to be scared of, of a flip like a virus that's going to come and kill us and there's no, there's nothing you can do, except that the average age of death is way above the average lifespan of most people I've like anyway, all that stuff so so then I started sharing those kinds of things to sharing like, Hey, have you noticed that all the deaths are like older than 87 or something like that? That's like when people would be dying anyway, and it doesn't really make sense. But every time I tried to share something that had a statistic or had an alternative viewpoint, that it was so polarising, people would just like, freak out and there'd be arguments in the comments and people blocking and shouting at each other and I was like, I don't want to do that. This doesn't seem fun to me. I'm not There's nothing good coming of this so I went quiet. And I tried to stay quiet. But I couldn't because it had this feeling of I have a truth and my truth is valid but my truth isn't about prove disproving someone else. I'm not trying to attack or defame or other or make someone else evil but I have a truth. That's mine. And it's important for me. And that's when I first wrote my I started with long form poems, and I've been a songwriter since I was 15 years old, 1415 years old. So that's more than half my lifetime ago. And I've always loved poetry. I've written poems. Here and there, but I never and I've always loved spoken word poetry, but I'd never written a long form poem like that. And then I was like, I need to get this out. And I just didn't feel like a song. So I have too much to say. And so I started these long form poems, and I think we are already free was maybe the second or the third one. that I wrote. And I'm saying that you know, I've been a lyricist my entire for most of my life. So I really words are like my, my gem that I've been polishing my whole life like the diamond in the rough that I polish till it shines. So the fact that I could translate that into written long form poetry. It's not like I suddenly started writing poems people haven't asked that like, oh, you know, what spirits do you think you channelling and I'm like, I'm channelling like, 30 years of deeply dedicated love of words. Like, I don't know what I don't want. You want to call that? But um, but at the end of the day, we're all channelling the divine. That's the funny part is just how clear who we have we got the signal, the channel that the signal comes through. It's really just about that. So anyway, I put that poem out. And what's hilarious is because I didn't know how viral stuff works, I didn't put my name on the video anywhere. I just, you know, put it up on my Instagram and then it just went and next thing people were writing to me from like Australia and America and all over the world being like, well what was funny about it is first of all a few people wrote to me like Hey, isn't this you? And then more and more people and then someone tagged me on facebook being like, I think this is you man because basically people were downloading the video and re uploading it, but no one could very quickly. The Broken telephone. No one knew who I was because my name wasn't on the video. Anyway, and that's how we are already free came about it was really my commentary on what I was witnessing, through my own lens of having lived through trying to trust society with it. Especially I think, I mean, there's many points of the poem makes but one of them is that comes up now is the idea that you all need to get an injection otherwise, you're a really bad person. And I'm like, I understand the logic of thinking that everyone needs to try to look after everyone else. So why don't we first you all stop drinking Coca Cola and watching the news and sitting on your couch and you all come outside and you do exercise and you eat good food and you think good thoughts. And then we see how everyone's health is and if we're still really in a bad way, then maybe we can talk about your injections. And and that was the point I was making is like it doesn't work. You've got to take the logic both ways. If you say I have to, that you want to control my bodily sovereignty so that you can feel safer. I want to do the same thing to you and I think we should do mine first because it's natural. That's how nature intended.

Unknown Speaker 15:14
Anyway, I got a little I tangent but basically we are already friends. And that line, we are already free. It's how the poem ends. It's the last line in the poem, and I really felt every time I would say that I could just feel people it was like taking a breath. Just like left Thank you. Yes. Yes. And so I know that on practical terms, as in my conversation with Emily of free birth society, which is the second episode of my podcast, she's like, she's like, I like the name. We already finished it. But in reality, we're all born into captivity in the society and that's the current reality and it's like, I'm not denying that. But in the same way that we use mantra, and we use prayer, and we use intention, and visualisation to manifest the future that we want. That's what we are ready for is about is that in the intrinsic and important ways, we are already free. And as we come to embody that and believe that and live by that, then that becomes our reality. And so that's the whole thing I'm in service of is the remembrance of that simple truth that we are already free.

Unknown Speaker 16:19
Yeah, it's, I mean, that the word I wrote was an intrinsic it literally the residue benefits of of that mantra and knowing that that you have with everything within you and like you said, there are practicalities to to the statement itself. But when you trust your you trust yourself at a very basic level and you listen to you know, I like to call it the inner shaman or your inner guide, you know, some really beautiful things can can take place. Like you said, the sickest I've been, has been when I've been thrust into the institutions of the world and the doctors and and I've sort of lost touch with my my inner shape might mean a shaman, you know, I've lost touch with my we are already free mantra that's that's been carried with me and so I connect with that on such a level. Yeah, it's amazing.

Unknown Speaker 17:27
Now this isn't this No, like how simple it is to reclaim but then also how hard it is to reclaim it's like both at the same time and we just love her Rhonda says we're all just walking each other home. And I think that that remembrance is such a you know, I was thinking a lot about truth, obviously, especially in the last few years where polarisation has become the primary weapon in the arsenal of separation because that's how polarisation works, it separates and I was thinking like okay, so what is the truth if I'm told on one side that veganism is the way forward I'm told now that I should eat only meat? Or even more if I'm told that I don't have medical sovereignty, and I need to trust the government and the medical systems? Or no, no, I actually am responsible as find out how do I know what the truth is? Where do I find that and I one of the ways that I have worked out for myself is anything or anyone that is basically just pointing directly at me. Is that something worth trusting, so anything that is trying its best or practising or facilitating me being empowered, that is definitely in the direction of truth. It's pointing at that it's pointing in an important direction. And actually, it's the hilarity of all the wisdom teachings is that these great masters, these great teachers, all they've ever been doing is pointing directly into your heart, Josh, your heart, whoever's listening in my heart, they're pointing and what happens is that so many people bow down and they say, oh holy finger, I am not worthy of your and like all the fingers doing is pointing strategy like Europe may. And yet we forget and we obsess over the teacher and the guide and the messenger. We we worship the map rather than using the map to get home.

Unknown Speaker 19:16
Yeah, I mean, I just want to Yeah, like so much there is. It's so easy to latch on to these, you know, these gurus, the self improvement courses and it is so easy and I see so many people falling victim because I've fallen victim, I'm saying that from personal experiences. You know, I was I was so about nine years ago, I decided, you know, I was very overweight. Kid very, very fat my whole entire life. And I decided, you know, this is it, I need to change in a biological level. But as good as that change was, it's it made me feel inferior in many ways afterwards because it's like when does it stop? You know, when does the self improvement bandwagon stop and who's the next person I need to latch on to to get to what I want in that if you know, where's like you said it these these grades you know the RAM does and the grades that really speak to you are speaking to you it's not they're not selling you anything they're selling you personal sovereignty. And I and you can't put a price tag on that. So then technically not selling it but yeah, I think that's so powerful. Love that.

Unknown Speaker 20:41
There's also this you will ask him about the butterfly earlier. So the cover of my podcast is a butterfly. And that actually came about I was putting together because people have been asking me that I want to be able to read these long form poems like in my own time because there's so much in them. So I created a basically just a free little ebook that is now offered on my website that's got sort of six. See, I just added an extra poem. It's either got five or six. I can't remember exactly. But anyway, I put that together and I was doing it on Canva and I found that image of the butterfly and I was like this just really feels beautiful. I love it. We already free it was all kind of resonating, and then I put that on there. And then when I was doing the podcast, I thought I'd do the same thing. And over that time. I mean, I've always loved the story of the butterfly and the caterpillar and the Seto. It's the perfect representation of transformation. But then just recently because I've been like so much about the butterfly because of the podcast and everything. I had this realisation that I haven't heard anyone talk about yet and I think it's it's such an important one if we're going to really, if we're going to really acknowledge the infinite game that we're playing. And this might sound very out there for some people and it's totally cool if it doesn't resonate for anyone, but I don't I think we are we are in infinity because I remember when I was a kid, I always used to be like, when did it begin? And then they'd like, oh, well, you know, the big bang. I'm like, But what about before the Big Bang? And it's like, where's the outside edge of reality? They're like, Oh, no, well, it's infinite, but it's expanding. It's like does that how does any of that make sense? And I could never get and as a kid I eventually I was like, Oh, I guess I just shouldn't be curious about that. Turns out I was bloody right. Because having now worked with breathwork and with plant medicines and actually experienced the dance between the finite and the infinite, I realised that we are literally a dream that the Infinite is having we are a finite part of infinity because for infinity to be infinite, there has to be the finite within it. And here we are having the finite experience within the infinite dance. And so that truth is very true. For me like that's my I know that deeply. And so what I noticed within even within all these new this new age of transformation, and we all everyone's obsessing about the butterfly, as if the butterfly is a destination. It is a destination in a cycle that it is not the end there. Is no end. So there's the butterfly. Then the butterfly lays an egg the egg becomes a caterpillar, the caterpillar eats and devours and actually destroys a lot in its journey of transformation. I noticed that the other day there were all these caterpillars on a tree at my dad's house and they had just about decimated the whole tree. And I was like well, then they'll go into cocoons, and they'll come up butterflies and they'll pollinate that same tree. So there's this beautiful invitation in that transformational journey to let go of the obsession with the butterfly. Yes, we will become at some point the butterfly the representation of enlightenment we will reconnect with our divine nature and be full expanded beings at one with everything all that you did it and then we'll go alright done this for a while Guess I'll go back to Caterpillar again. Let's start again. And it's we're even saying that there's a part of me that's like, whoa, that's intense. Like there's no end. It doesn't. But the gift of infinity is forgetfulness. Because here I am. I don't remember that. I don't remember being one with everything and being all that is all at once in all directions and all times happening simultaneously. Like, here I am. I'm Nathan, as far as I can tell in this moment. And that's the gift to remember to let go is that we are just on a journey and each part of the journey is as natural as every other part. If you're a caterpillar and you're listening to this, be a caterpillar. If you're a caterpillar mush inside a cocoon dissolving and you don't know what's going to come out the other side, dissolve trust the cocoon trust the process. If you're a butterfly, well then you know you're at that phase where you you get it and it's all good. It's all part of the cycle. Not none of them are better than the other. And I think the real gift that these masters have always been telling us is like you're it and you're it now. You don't have to go anywhere else to be in it. Just be it. That's it here we are done.

Unknown Speaker 24:57
It's beautiful. I love that. I really do. I think maybe that that's a kind of good lead on to. So you spoke about. Again, I'm going back to the podcast with Tara because it was so powerful to me but you spoke about your dog Sasa and because we were just speaking about the different stages and you spoke about going back and transforming and you spoke about it cracking open this this this portal of pain and loss for you and just to give you a bit of context. In 2019 I had I lost for the first time a very close family man, I lost my gran and I never thought it would it would have the impact that it did. And at the same time I was on this journey of self discovery and I guess maybe if you call you know going to Africa burden and taking a bit too much psychedelics journey of self discovery, but I was young and I was you know, none the wiser. But yeah, so I had a very difficult experience at Africa Burton. On on some heavy dose psychedelics, and for the first time I got I got a bad witness to this idea of loss and it came down to me like a hurricane and it shaped it shaped my last few years like dramatically and I definitely, definitely think for the better. If I had known better than I would have, I would have you know, more of my favourite monitors is trust let go and be open. And I kind of wish I carried that with me through that experience because I ran away from it. I was so I was kind of embarrassed about what had happened to me there. And somebody when I was going through a difficult time that went that night somebody had guided me and helped me sort of just come down from the experience and I remember I remember taking my hand and feeding the earth again. And when the sun came up, I was crying and it was a very, very tough experience. And the the experience was tough. But the ripple effect was was was was harder, you know, the coming months, just just knowing what had happened. And then what also came out was this, this dawning moment and this difficult relationship that I've had my father my entire life also came out from that. So everything you know when it rains it pours so everything just came down on me like a an absolute hurricane. But it was, from my perspective, it was birthed from that feeling of loss and my gran was an incredible woman. She She was one of the only people in my family that didn't question anything I did. It was just like, she used to call me she used to call me my son. And she and whatever I did, she just said if it makes you happy, do it and she was just this incredible human that just sort of just just gave me this permission to be you know who I am and I think that was the difficult part is you know realising that but i digress a bit but you spoke about your your dog and and I resonated with that and you spoke about this comparison you and interior spoke about this comparison of depths of loss. So I was wondering if you could maybe just speak to that because to me it was super, super powerful.

Unknown Speaker 28:25
Well, thank you so much for sharing and honouring, honouring your grandmother. And just honouring all loss. It's really sad. And it is one of the realities that none of us can really ever escape is that we will lose it all. Eventually. And it's sad. It's fucking hard when I when my dog Cecil went, and it was still quite early days. I called a friend of mine. And we were just speaking about something unrelated and I told her about Sasa and and she said something I'd never heard before I'd heard it one way but not this way. She said it she said when the student is ready, the teacher leaves and I just because I've always heard you know, when the student is ready, the teacher arrives and hearing your story I was thinking how, how beautiful that you had this your grandmother in your life who was that one person who could really just like always saw you as enough was always just like, you're good. How beautiful that is and that in the time that she left that cracking open was your time to grow and to transform into someone who internally is practising and enough and how interesting that timing is and how for me the timing of Sasa leaving. I have never in my life been as prepared. Not that anyone can prepare for something like that, but I've never had as many resources available to feel the feelings of my mom abandoning me for nine months when I was 10 years old, just disappearing and literally not a phone call or a letter having no idea where she was or what had happened. I don't remember that time. Really. I remember her going. I remember her dropping us off for the weekend and our dads and I remember her. I remember my dad saying I have a surprise for you nine months later and it wasn't my mom. And so I've never been able to access that stuff. And Sasa leaving gave me access to that and it's, it's as you know, it's eviscerating. It is like, it is like being dragged blindfolded over coals and razors and like it's the gnarliest hardest, most painful stuff. And yet, it's also real. And I had this realisation recently around that that the great mother, the mother of all the Divine Mother has to go through that as, as Emily said in our, in our talk on my podcast that like everyone who's everything that's born is born to die. And every mother that births knows in some way that she is birthing a being that is going to die and that's and then I was like okay, we'll expand that to infinity. And imagine that if Mother Earth as an entity was she knows that everything she births is going to die. And yet she loves us all unconditionally and she holds us all unconditionally and she keeps making new life because that's what she's here to do. Like how's that for love and understanding and acceptance and a level of loss that I can't even wrap my head around. But but with Tara it was interesting because I felt almost ashamed to bring up the loss of Sasa because Tara lost her daughter and and so but I really wanted to go there because it is like when I think about it now I still there's a part of me that even as you said her name Sasa was like your competence. She's gone. Like it doesn't make sense. How's this possible? And it just like it doesn't mean that's life. It's just as it's not. It's not meant to make sense. It's meant to be experienced and known. And I'm still practising that I still bypass it and hide from it at times because it's so painful. But I'm here I'm in you know, like I do, I'm doing my best and

Unknown Speaker 32:19
and just Tara said it beautifully. She's like, we can't compare loss like loss is loss, and we're all we love what we love, and we lose and we go through it. And I know for me personally at this point, it is the biggest loss that I've ever consciously been through. And yeah, and that's it. I don't know what else to say to anyone out there listening who is navigating loss. I wish you the resources to be able to really feel it. Whatever that looks like to find the people or the practices that breathwork that meditations, whatever it is that lets us sit in the pain and like a river a flood a torrent, let it flow through you. Because it what it all it wants to do is move I actually have a song that I'm writing at the moment and it's on that theme. And it says someday life will crack you open overflow emotion and the damn floodwaters will burst. Don't flee the flood it seeks the ocean. Every motion is a sign of your beautiful thirst. So if you're listening to this and you know loss, let it run let it run

Unknown Speaker 33:36
yeah

Unknown Speaker 33:39
that's beautiful. And yeah, thank you for thank you for sharing that it. Like I said for me, I mean, you said it again but just bring it up. Makes that awareness. Everyone is I guess, in some sense playing this single player game that we play. So your your level of consciousness is going to attach the level of depth to whatever you're experiencing and no one can tell you that your suffering is no less than somebody else's. And I think the difficult experiences that I've that I've had in the past through plant medicine or or breath, breath work or everything that I've done is made me appreciate that on a very deep level and see people's suffering as congruent with their nature and it's not about me it's about what they experiencing. And yeah that's that's profound. It's it's beautiful.

Unknown Speaker 34:50
Yeah, there's a I think the hardest thing is or one of the hardest things for me is that it's all in service to growth is so there's a part of me that I punish myself because I wish that I had been conscious enough and together enough and healed enough that says it didn't have to go that way that that she could have stayed and I could have held her in my arms as she paused rather than her running away for whatever reasons that she did. Or that you know, all the stories that I have and at the same time that we if you believe in the idea of karma of this idea that everything is happening and service to growth everything is a part of the story of ourselves unfolding for ourselves. there becomes a kind of a piece within that of like, okay, instead of how did I fuck this up? It's what is the lesson this is gifting me. And I had a vision of that of like because Sasa we have beautiful pictures of her on the wall that currently my beloved made for me for my birthday honouring Sasa these big like prints. And sometimes when I look at them, I feel bad. I look at them and I just feel guilty. And in my plant medicine journey, it showed me how if I if I continue to just show up like practice showing up that's that's the whole point is I'm going to fail a gazillion more times but all I have to do is get up one more time and then I fail just one extra get up to every fail and then those those images of Sasa on the wall become trophies. They become a hero that has been rightfully honoured and worshipped as a teacher on my path that gave her life so that I could grow and heal and become fully myself and that in fact, her death is like so honourable and so in service to life. That of course I would have those photos and I would bow before them and give thanks. And that's just a story. You know, I can tell the story of our Nathan you're such a fuckup that your dog ran away and it's all your fault or Nathan, you're doing the best that you can and Sasser surrendered and sacrificed her life as she is all part of the one that I am a part of. And she's that part of me sacrificed itself so that this part of me could fully embody and then show up in service and live a beautiful life and celebrate and have joy. And I'd much rather tell that story. That's a way better story for i for everyone that I know for myself. For everything. So that's what I'm practising.

Unknown Speaker 37:14
Yeah. With you, brother. And I think you summed it up by saying doing the best you can. I mean, if I had known better, I would have done better. That's all I can say. And these these, these things come and you can be prepared but you know, you you just you sometimes just have those blinders on and if anything these painful experiences for me certainly has just taken them completely away. I'm like now all of a sudden just looking all around and just seeing this, this experience called Life from from a perspective that I just have not experienced before. Yeah, yeah, so you mentioned breathwork and plant medicine. I would love to touch on these because I think they as ill prepared as I've been in the past, you know, as one does, I came in I came into the experience like a typical typical person interested in these substances, you know, going to trans parties and having a few psychedelics and not really not really respecting the medicine, you know, although I've always been interested in it. I've never had access, which is the sad part as well, which maybe you've want to touch. I've never had access to a guide that I can go to because I unlike many of my friends at school, I was reading about them before I stepped foot in and I was interested in it but I didn't know where to go. I actually had no way no guide to sort of, to to seek the help that I wanted to with these with these powerful medicines. So what like, I don't know I was going somewhere with this and I've I've sort of lost my train of thoughts of it. But what what is your what has been your experience with plant medicine? And and how is it informed you? And then maybe, if you want to also just touch on the breath work side of things as well and how that's maybe a similar experience, but maybe less? I don't know less than tense initially, but I don't know how you want to tackle that. But that's go for it.

Unknown Speaker 39:36
Cool. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I think many of us are most of us initially came to psychedelics through just like experimentation and thinking, you know, I had mushrooms a few times when I was a teenager and then kind of left it alone. I think for me personally, I'd always always been more like would take me too deep into this kind of medicine, medicine work and I was like, I thought this was supposed to be fun. And medicine work. Actually is is fun at the end of the day. This is the funny part is that I only started to realise but

Unknown Speaker 40:11
yeah, when I walked away from it for many, many years and then I started hearing about this thing called Ayahuasca some years ago and was like an a people who I really respected were, were using these things and because I had, I had bought the story that psychedelics was like something hippies do and it's all like weird and crazy and and then all these people are really these leaders and business owners and people who were like really showing up beautifully in the world running really conscious businesses and showing up for their families. And they were all talking about these things, and this is not 2008 2009 And then I had my first experience with Iosco and 2000 End of 2009 which blew me like I was so not ready and I went into the circle of people who I did I was I didn't know anyone there. I'd heard about it through someone and I just arrived and drank ayahuasca and then like left my freakin body for however many hours it was super intense and I sat with it a few more times that year 2010 Because yeah, but every experience was like, they were good lessons for me. The second experience was choose your guides wisely. And I'm not saying the guide. There was a bad guide but that wasn't good for me. I didn't resonate with the guy that didn't resonate with the vibe. It was very unsafe. And I think that this is actually very important. I'm hearing more people start to share around like safety and how important it is because there are energetic frequencies and there are entities and there are consciousness different types of consciousness that have different agendas. And it's so so so important that the set and the setting are sorted, that it's with people who you deeply trust, who know how to navigate all the spaces that can come up and really prioritise, prioritise safety really because so that you can go to unsafe spaces in yourself spaces that are dangerous spaces that are way outside of your comfort zone. And that you can go there and know that no matter what's happening, there's someone there. who's got your back, who's holding the container who's keeping the energy clear who's keeping the music going, who's got the sage burning, like keeping that vibe high. I think that is actually critical. And I would also add to that, that I know I'm going practical, and I'll go into more stories of how it's affected me but I just think it's so important that we cover this aspect which is is also the integration preparation and integration are critical. I still want to improve my integration, I still lose so much of the wisdom and the teachings I get when I work with plant medicine because I'm still trying to find good integration practices. And support networks. And this is something I think a lot about, and I think we will develop them as we go forward in this. But I would envision that eventually people will start to have integration circles where there's and I know that they happen but more and more. When that becomes normal that we you know, okay, we're going to sit with medicine. Great. Do you have your integration group ready like are you going to be integrating with other people? And just making sure because basically, our life as we live it right now is like a groove. And so we've worn that groove in our heads and also in the external reality. So we come out of this, this medicine being like wow, I've so shifted everything's different i I'm connected to the Divine within myself and within everything else, my whole life is gonna change and then we just slot straight back into our little rut, and within a few days, would do exactly waking up late binge watching Netflix, eating shitty food, like whatever the stories are, because all that and then our relationships, our friends, our family they're all alike, but I expect you to be a certain way and so then they have the pressure of like, not always but these are the the realities that are worth considering. So what am I putting in place that is going to help me to stay open and stay expanded and take action on the insights that I gain in these journeys. I think that's such an important place to start saying all of that. I don't know that I would I don't think I would still be alive if it wasn't for plant medicines. I was in such a bad way for a long time and I was looking for something and even to the point that my family and friends, none of whom are really pro pharmaceuticals. They started saying like, Maybe you should take some antidepressants, because this is like worrying. You know, at one point, I think I was trying to contact Valkenburg to like, Can I check myself in you know, like, can I because I'm I don't know how I'm going to keep going

Unknown Speaker 44:39
and fortunately I kept researching and kept finding information about plant medicines and decided and I felt a call letting funnily enough this was now already. She's when I was still in England was like years and years ago, but my reconnection with psilocybin was that I had I think I had a dream about it and had this feeling where like for weeks it was like I should take mushrooms I said Why am I thinking that I have not been like I've been touched psychedelics in many many years. I I'm not in I'm not keen. And then a few weeks later, this is like end of cautious as many years ago now but a friend arrived to visit and as she walked through the door I was house sitting my aunt's house in North London and England. And as you walk through the door, she just handed me a bag and said, Hey, my friend grows mushrooms and I don't know why but I thought you might want these and I was like, Okay, I guess I'm taking those. And I actually it was maybe two, maybe three grammes, which is still a respectable dose. And I that New Years, I just stayed home and I ate these mushrooms and they really helped me a lot. And then again, it was years before I was courageous enough because I was scared of containers and I felt so unsafe I wanted to do it by myself. I never wanted anyone to see my wounding and I think that's a big part of this fight the funny that every man is an island like we're all I needed. I was like if I just heal by myself, then I can bring myself back to the world and then everyone can get the nice, the beautiful healed happy Nathan. And anyway, so I found a therapist eventually who was working illegally in South Africa, and like a clinical psychologist, and I worked with the psychologist and then at some point, was able to go and sit with five gramme dose of psilocybin with a few other people. And then I had two more solo journeys and and I mean, those journeys were so transformative, like they just, it was that feeling of of letting go of the identity of my story, Nathan with his physical pain and his teeth issues and his I don't know what job to do and I'm depressed and all that's happened to me and my life and it was like I went out through that layer. Like the ego death, as they call it, and then, and then ancestors and then society and then Earth and then life and then and eventually, I was just the field of light and colour and love, and that's all that there was. That's all and I even at that perspective, I could look in and I saw like, Hitler, and Holocaust and and I like lots of beautiful things and love but like I also saw the dark and nasty stuff. And that feeling of that being that that ocean of colour and sound and light that is just all one thing. It was just I love you. I love you. I love you to all of it. Every little piece, the brightest and the darkest. And that was a fucking relief, to realise like we are all worthy before the eyes of the Lord basically like that no one this idea of of hell, as some punishment that we get held something that we do to ourselves, when we forget to forgive like there's a beautiful story of the Buddha, where there was a whether it's true or not, it's you know, it's a it's a teaching story. There was a guy who dedicated his life to murder. Like he was literally I want to kill as many people as I can. That's my life's purpose. And he killed 999 people, and he's like, I need a big one for my 1000 Kill. You know, like I really need to make a mark and you should have heard about this Buddha guy, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna I'm taking that I'm taking him down. And he went and he met the Buddha and because of the Buddha because he was so connected to his oneness to his true nature when this man met the Buddha, he was like, Oh, I've I needed to learn, I need to learn what you're doing and I want to do it. And he did. He sat with the Buddha and he attained his own enlightenment, his connection, and then He dedicated the rest of his life, going back to the families of every person he'd murdered. Not to like I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but to teach them meditation so that they could also realise that they hadn't lost anything that nothing is lost and that everything is one and it's all okay. And I'm sure he apologised a few times too but like, but there's a beauty in that of like, again, if I carry my guilt around the mistakes that I made that may have caused my dog Sasa to run away then I'm doing us all a disservice. But if I take those lessons, and I use the skills and the practices, that for me, plant medicine and breath work are like the most direct way to realise that truth and to come home to that truth. Because at the end of the day, the universe is a dance it is a song, it is a story universe, one story universe, one song, and the song is to be danced. And so all of these medicines are doing all the breathwork is doing and the plant medicines is saying, oh, there's something there that's stopping you from dancing. Let's get that out. Let's purge that. Lets cry it out. It's shouted out to shake it out. And then keep then get back up and keep dancing like that's because that's what you came here to do. So it's not a punishment, like the difficulty that is plant medicine and breath work is the difficulty of being wounded, of being of having pain. Of having unhealed trauma, and the process of healing that is only to then return to let's sing and dance and make love forever and ever. Amen. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 49:59
man, you you said something about you. I know you mentioned ancestors and forgiveness. I had a actually during during COVID During the deep deep dark depths of COVID and locked down and things like that. I was also I had this I had this calling had this calling to to to to dive into plant medicine and I wanted to go to a guide. I wanted to respect the medicine itself and I had this longing and also into a guy that was working in Johannesburg at the time. And I took a pretty hefty dose of mescaline and that's a long trip. That was the longest trip I've ever experienced. I mean it was like it was like 20 hours it was crazy. But during the initial stages of it i i spoke about my dad and just like I've read a lot of Bartlett's and I know Dave Feldman and all these greats that writes about psychedelics and think they say hold on to your goals. So the insights that you get, you only want to share them with people that you that you really know or respect them. And it's so easy to just like hand them off to people that are not ready that that might actually dismiss your insights and things like that, but certainly with you I feel I could share this but I remember so I've had this difficult relationship with my dad my entire life and and I've been raised by my mom, single mom most of my life has been me and her and and I knew this was something that I had to face and and I remember taking the medicine and I saw my dad's pain as a kid the same pain that was carried down to me. I saw his pain. And I saw my ancestors pain. And I saw this generates male generational pain that had been passed down to all the men in my family. And I just cried my eyes out and I came together with my father like I got this image in my head. We wrapped we wrapped our heads together and and I just I saw my ancestors dancing around us. And we all just like sort of came in and close each other up. And and yeah, I felt this level of forgiveness that that I just don't think would be possible without plant based medicine. It's safe to say that it opened up. Or, yeah, maybe that's a big statement but it just opened up this, this level of forgiveness. That was so profound to me and it's, I carry with me every day and I'm super grateful and we are much better terms now for that and just having that ability to access your pain without your ego I guess is what it's about is to see your pain as just pain and it's when your ego is attached to it that that you really have a difficult time associating with it or or or understanding it. So yeah, thanks for mentioning that I just thought I would share that with you because I just had a very similar experience who with with with what you were.

Unknown Speaker 53:29
Yeah, mentioning beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean as I love that, I think that the breath is such a good guide as well for because at times it is it's not like the things we're talking about are super hard assigned to be in that space and to be confronted by something dark and ugly and angry and and like because it's toxic stuff that gets stuck and it wants to move but it's scary to go to the place where where it is so that we can let it move. And for me, I think that's where the breath can become such a good friend. The breath is a reminder that life wants to flow is that there is an in breath and then there is an art breath and we can't actually stop either of them for any length of time and if we try it really hurts, so might as well come back to the breath and that in the breath. And I'm sorry, here here we go. Letting Go letting it flow letting it move. So yeah, really, always coming back to the breath. It's interesting you talk about your dad because I've held a lot of anger for my dad even though we've been super close and in some ways it's like the what are they like the golden shadow? Where everyone always thought like Oh, Nathan and mark like what a beautiful son and son and father like they just get on so well and they're so similar and and I think because of that I never really had a chance to explore the parts that were hurt and that were broken and that were in pain. And I saw for a long time that that started expressing his anger and I was very impatient, very angry with him. And I couldn't really work out why. But interestingly, in a journey I had a plant medicine journey I had brought a photo with me to the weekend of myself as a really young boy sitting on a on a fence looking at my dad who was taking the photo on a phone camera and in the journey for the first time. And this is what's so beautiful about these medicines whether it's breathwork or plant medicines or trans dancing or whatever it is it gets to the what's beautiful is that it dissolves it helps us to see things literally see things from another perspective. So in that moment, I suddenly for the first time ever, I'd always looked at that photo and be like, oh look, I'm happy I looked then you know that little Nathan who just wanted to play and have a good time. Oh, wow. You know, that's sad that I lost a lot of that, etc. And in the moment in this journey, suddenly I looked through the camera, and I saw the love that my dad had taking that photo. And I saw that like wow, I just knew that the man who took that photo loved me absolutely as well as he could and with all of the brokenness and the wounding of our lineage. Yet there he was taking a photo of his smiling young son just being like, wow, this is amazing. And I knew that deeply and it just freed me from all that rage and all that blame that I'd been holding with him and it's not that he hasn't done bad shit. I've done bad shit like we all have, but we will equal in that we're all innocence before the Lord you know. And when I say the Lord, I just mean the universe, the divine, the sacred, whatever we want to call it, but we truly are all equal within the divine dance, and it's so nice to remember that.

Unknown Speaker 56:53
Yeah, thank you. Well, I guess we Yeah, you never alone is a great overarching theme is that is as alone as you think you are. You just there's people out there that the integration is here. And that's what's important about it is that I suppose for me this podcast is a bit of an integration integration session as well. But yeah, but Nathan, I want to be quite respectful of your time. I know we coming up. I don't know how much more time you have left. But maybe a bit of a, I guess a bit of a bit of a quick segues. That's just for myself. I suppose it's a bit of a personal like scratching, scratching of the itches that you know you put on such good content and your social media and stuff like that and, and such purpose for content. How do you manage your your your time and social media, how do you how do you manage your connections and how do you ensure that you don't get lost in the void of just the constant? I guess, stuff that comes our way just going online. And yeah, you can tackle that how I view IV like

Unknown Speaker 58:10
Well, thank you so much for for the invitation. And in all honesty, it's my biggest shadow piece like I really really struggle with. With tech addiction. It's always been, I've always been surprisingly like I love tech. I'm really good at it. Like I understand how it works. I love to always try to work out the best way to do things, but it means that i i don't know I'm addicted to it. I won't deny it. I feel and in some ways it's a solution I'm still looking for I'm still seeking the balance, because I think of it like imagine being someone who owns a bar and you're an alcoholic. It's your business and it's killing you. And so for me like I'm very addicted to my phone and to Tech in general social media especially. And yet it's also where my work is and where I share with people and where I get clients for my my intuitive guiding and my coaching and my breath work. And so, what I do know and what I do notice is that if I focus more on what I do want, if I take more time to plan my days and to vision my life and to take time literally manifesting like breathing and imagining the body the life the relationships the the the feelings that I want to feel more of in my life and then I take time to plan okay, what are the actions I'm taking this week and today or this month to Matt to move in that direction? That that kind of just pushes out the other stuff, like like for so much time on social media. So I've also recently started being in service more it's something you know, at times, I volunteered on lifeline, the South African suicide hotline, and then I moved in so I haven't been doing that. But I in the local community. I started volunteering a few times a week and I'm just pyrite consciously prioritising more of the things that I do care about and then there's just simply less time for the other stuff. It is still a challenge. And there have been times when I've been way better at it and we're worse at it and then comes in it goes. Unfortunately, the reality is that these apps and these devices are designed. The algorithms are way cleverer than my monkey brain. At getting me getting those dopamine triggers to fire. So, so it's a tough one man. It's a it's an ongoing journey. I know that when I prioritise connection with other people when I prioritise connection with my purpose, connection to my to service to helping others connection to nature and adventure that naturally the social media falls away. What I'm still learning to navigate is when I have like spare moments go to the toilet, or I'm just like, we're at a restaurant a colleague goes off to the bathroom or gets a call. It's like the easiest thing to just pick up my phone and get back into it. So these are still things I'm navigating and I really I have an intention to spend my time more beautifully and more presently. And I'm working on that it is a work in progress, and I don't have I don't have the answers on that one. It's it's a difficult one because this tech is so addictive. And it's been it's been my primary drug for a long time. And so in some ways people were like, Oh, well, at least it doesn't cocaine. I'm like, well, that's kind of easier to like get away from cocaine once you make that decision. Whereas this is literally integrated into my whole life. So yeah, if anyone out there has other suggestions I'm in.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:55
Well, I mean, I like how you've gone full circle back to what she was speaking about in the beginning is back to the truth. It's just when you've got that truth bottled up inside you, it's, you've got this, these platforms that make it so easy and so accessible to release that truth. But then, it's like once you've done the releasing, it's like there's this sort of ripple effect of other just scrolling and meme devouring and things like this

Unknown Speaker 1:02:24
meme devour Yes.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:28
And then you know if I can just maybe sign off quickly so you you posted speaking of you posted this video, I love it and you how you memorise that whole piece about veganism. But she spoke about veganism being this other ism. You can go as deep as you want, but that was a great video. And reason being is because I've often found that within the plant medicine, space space breathwork space there. There's this sort of perception that you have to adopt you know it's like if you in the you just automatically by default have to adopt you know, a plant based diet to be considered spiritual or to be considered connected there I maybe it's a maybe it's my own perception but that's what I fall flat again, reaching out to you a big part of my reaching out to you as because you were so open about everything. And like you said, you don't want to be caged into this thing. So can you just speak about that and maybe touch on how has that has your diet itself evolved over time? And how is it maybe affected you?

Unknown Speaker 1:03:37
Yeah, thank you. You know, to me the word spirit spirituality has become associated with this idea of transcending the physical. And it's like what I was talking about earlier that the caterpillar and the cycle, there's nothing to transcend. So, everything we see everything that exists, we are it is us. We are at some stage reflections of everything we experience. And I used to think, as it says in that poem, you're talking about which is called life unfolding into everything. And I've often thought about leaving out that first piece of like, have you yet realised that veganism is just another ism. And I think a lot of people get hooked on that, especially the people who like label themselves as vegan they get hooked on the on that and I'm only speaking from experience I was part of that. Not just that lifestyle, but that industry. I worked in raw food veganism. I worked in a vegan cafe in Camden Town in London. I worked in a vegan dessert kitchen in London like I went all the way deep in that world. I really know what it feels like to think as I say in the poem that like I don't have to feel any guilt if I don't see any blood on my plate like that. That's that I get away from killing that I get away from something having to die so I can live. And I think one of the limitations of that perspective is that consciousness is like more or less like there's more or less consciousness like oh, well a cow is super conscious, but like a piece of lettuce is not at all conscious because it doesn't for whatever reason, I don't think that they show up in life in the same way but I do know that when a plant is being eaten, it will send toxins out into its leaves to stop the predator from eating it more. I do know that when a tree in the forest falls down the other tree send messages are like hey, what's up what's happening? Someone someone's gone, like we need to work this out. That's what's the danger. Life, life wants to live and all life dies. And so what I realised over time was I could either meet that honestly, and meet that in the fullness of itself. Or I could continue to pretend that I didn't have to be a part of that cycle by drinking almond milk or whatever the story was that I had about that. And I came to the light through regenerative agriculture like just seeing how how rich the earth is when there are ruminants and when there are predators that keep the ruminants moving so that the ruminants don't eat too much of the grass or the bushes. And how important that cycle is that the ruminants are moved on by predators and that we are now we have to be responsible for that because we've killed too many of the predators which is really sad, but it's the reality it's where we are right now. So all those kinds of things and also, I've always followed and listened to people I consider kind of leaders in in whatever area I'm interested in. So when I was into the veganism stuff like I was following people, like shazzy, who wrote the book naked chocolate, which popularised raw chocolate, like she wrote the book with David Wolfe, who's like the leader of the raw vegan movement for a long time, like, and I went to work for shazzy Like, I didn't just, you know, I really made an effort to connect and when she was he was like, veganism isn't a sustainable diet. And she's like, I'm she's like one of the top vegans in the world, written books about it, and she's like, it's not sustainable. And yet she was vegan, and she was keeping her kid vegan. And like, all these signs, like, it all started to be like cognitive dissonance, what the fuck is going on? This doesn't make sense. And then all of the leaders like I worked in that vegan cafe and the guy who owned that dam and amazing guy, deeply researched deeply in integrity, like did so much of the best to make sure he was as ethical as possible. He eventually went back and started like butchering his own animals like literally going to the abattoir because he's that kind of guy. He's like, Well, I realised I have to eat meat because I'm going to I'm getting sick and I didn't want to be healthy and I want to be a part of regenerative cycles within society within the world. So I need to take responsibility and instead of just like eating meat from the market, he went to his local butcher to get his properly raised animals like those are the people and every single one of those leaders that I followed. Ended up reintroducing meat into their diets at the highest level. Again, I'm not condoning factory farming in any way, shape, or form in the same way that I'm not condoning mono cropping I've just like rows of lettuce or rows of almond trees or rows of whatever that single thing is that you think you can eat that you can not have to kill anything for. Like it doesn't work that way. And I'm sorry if that's upsetting for some people to hear. But that's when my truth is now and I've been through it like I'm not just coming at that from like, oh, well, it's just easier to eat meat. And yeah, so that's, that's a big part of it is life eats life. From nature's table no one gets to escape that

Unknown Speaker 1:08:27
and I actually like one of the gifts coming back to Sasa and and how it all works, that when Sasa had disappeared and we were searching for her and was just like, just so heartbreaking and imagining her, you know, dehydrated and slowly dying out in the tundra like I mean, she says stories just break me. At some point in that period, the guys who lived on the farm actually the people whose Sasa was originally their dog on that farm and then she chose me and moved in. It's a whole long story but, but those guys that kids came to us one day with a hook that they had found with a broken wing, and they're like, you know, here's this hook, we found, can you maybe help it and we're like, Well, let's take it to the vet. And this Hawk Dude, it was like the calmest it was like a Zen monk. It was fully conscious. It was looking around blinking its eyes. Just completely calm. Just and I was like, Oh, this thing looks like it's in great shape. Like we'll probably get it there and and then I opened the wing and it was just like shards of bone and ants and it was decaying. It must have been there already for days like and we went to we put it down like we were like this is this is clearly on its way out. Let's just help it along. And you know, and that was the right thing to do. But what that showed me is that truly wild animals truly wild creatures are not afraid of death or pain. Like that animal must have been in so much pain, and it just was like full Zen and I realised in a way that was a gift from the universe showing me that Sasa for sure passed in peace, however that went like that somehow she found it under a bush or wherever and she just went to sleep and she just let it happen. Because she even though she's domesticated like dogs, they still got it. You know, they still know and I have since heard many dogs actually do run away to die when it's that time. But just that story to me of how we try to like romanticise or Disney fie how life works of like, oh, no, you know, the little animals they just want to play with each other. People share these beautiful videos of like an alligator cuddling a deer or something and it's like yeah, cool. Life is crazy. Shit Happens all the time like that. That's not the norm. And that's not like life doesn't care about our like, I just want it to be gentle and sweet. Life eats life from nature's table, and that's how it is. And not only that, but then obviously, the big one is like, I think if I thought that I could be healthy as a plant based eater, that I would still have, like, tried to find a way to make it work somehow regeneratively and sustainably. But I just don't believe that I think that humans need those epic, juicy, Fatty, drifting meaty, like oh, that even when I talk about my boys like, Oh, yes. Like feeling that, that that like rich earthiness? Because it's again what I was talking about earlier, spirituality is not transcending anything. Spirituality is fully being earthed. And here now and I can't think of a better way to fucking be here now than eating a delicious, juicy dripping sizzling steak straight off the BRI like come on.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:39
That is making me very hungry

Unknown Speaker 1:11:44
Well, anyway, so yeah, that's that's my story with plant based and um, and I also see it as a part of this. This sort of, as I said, the romanticising of reality where we can now it's like if you don't feel like you belong in your body. Take these drugs and cut these pieces off and you'll be completely fine. If you don't want to hurt anything. Oh, that's fine. You just eat plants and it's going to be totally okay to eat the Impossible Burger because it's good for the planet. But it's made in factories. It's a complete from start to finish an industrial process. So like there's this idea of, if we continue to surrender our freedom to some parental figure who says that they are going to take care of us. We will continue to sicken and feel isolated and feel overwhelmed and powerless. Because that is dis ease is disconnection from the reality that we are all responsible for our freedom and we are all responsible for owning that fully. And that means that for me to live, something else has to die. And it's not a bad thing. It's just how life works. And I can either do that consciously or that can happen unconsciously. And if it happens unconsciously. It's more than likely going to be super toxic and super poisonous for the planet. So rather do it consciously choose it wisely and show up for it. Which is why like the meat we buy is top quality like it's from the best regenerative agriculture, Epic's sources you know, eventually Yes, I'd like to have my own animals but in this I'm doing the best that I can with where I am right now. And I think that's better than just like checking out and being like, Oh, I don't know, it doesn't matter. I'll just eat whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:22
Yeah. Well, yeah, Nathan, we gonna have to have another answer because many ways of that but thank you so much. This has been such an awesome deep, beautiful chat with you. I really appreciate your time and energy means a lot I know. Certainly myself sensitive individuals. It is it is quite taxing sometimes on the on the nervous system when you when you release when you release energy and you need to recoup a bit so I really appreciate the vulnerability and sharing your story with me it means a lot. Where can people find you if they need to get ahold of you or let's not let's not be like your video that you just posted. In case this gets you hanging in the best?

Unknown Speaker 1:14:09
Like how do you spell main hard? Main word me? Thank you. I mean, thank you for inviting me on Josh and thank you for what you're doing and I just wish you like all the blessings on your path as for all of us all of us just remembering together that we're already free and let's do this thing. Let's dance. And that's actually the easiest place for people to find me it's just dance and I'll be there. No, it's just we are already free.com We are already free.com And that will direct you to the podcast or to my website or wherever somewhere where you'll find me and be able to connect further however you choose. And any I just do make that invitation I am in service to offer one to one intuitive guiding and coaching and narrative transformation like helping with songs and stories and poems and breathwork helping people who are on this journey of transformation of reclaiming sovereignty. So if anyone is listening to this and feels like they could do with some help and support on that path, I'd be honoured the honour to connect with you. And yeah, that you can sign up for a free discovery call at that same link. So just Yeah, reach out find me and let's do this thing. And thank you again, Josh, really lovely speaking with you. Thank you for reaching out. Look forward to the next one.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:27
Thanks, brother. Cheers.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:28
Evening. Evening. Day Evening.

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